A Chat with J.C. Mathes
of J et R Selections, Ltd.
by Bastardo

Part 1 | Part 2 

2000 Domaine Thibert Pere et Fils Mâcon-Prissé "En Chailloux," 13% alc.: Mark opened this medium straw colored Chardonnay, which as it turns out, is J.C.'s favorite white, and it's easy to see why; it features a pretty green apple bouquet that echoes in the rich, smooth flavors with a certain creamy quality that almost seems to belie the fact that it sees no oak, only stainless steel. The wine has good (if not racy or "zippy") acidity that keeps it moving right along and a nice long finish. I could drink this every day.

J.C. also brought along a few reds as well.

1995 Domaine Le Mas des Collines Regis de Taxis Gigondas, 13.5% alc.: A house favorite at Gang Central going back to the 1990 vintage, this ever-so-slightly rusty dark garnet is classic Mas des Collines, with its earthy cola, plum and blackberry flavors and aromas that are showing just a hint of funk at this point. It's still a tannic wine, and while it's drinking fairly well now, becoming somewhat floral as it opens with air, it'll be better in 3-5 years. Mark observes, "I love that spicy, peppery thing going on," and indeed, so do we all.

1999 Château de Montmirail Gigondas Cuvée de Beauchamp, 13.6% alc.: We've enjoyed the Vacqueyras from this producer, but this was my first taste of the Gigondas. "I brought this along because it's so totally different from the Mas des Collines," J.C. explained. It's sleeker, and a little less dense and concentrated than the Mas des Collines, but it's a nice glass of wine, supple and easy to drink. It features pretty plum and blackberry character that is markedly different from the previous selection, and despite being quite approachable, it will improve with at least a few years in the cellar. 

While we sipped, Mathes made some general observations on the wines. 

J.C.: Rhône wines are not linear. They're not like Bordeaux Cabernets, which have differences in quality, but not necessarily in taste. But Rhônes differ so much in style, the fruit, they're earthy, they're spicy, depending on what the wine maker does. Lay them side by side, and the (Domaine des) Favards and l'Espigouette are totally different wines.

geo: Is that more a matter of soil, or wine making techniques, or both?

J.C.: The blends are fairly similar, but they don't make them the same way. Bernard and his neighbor, Favards have the same climate, the same soil, everything, but the wines are nothing alike. It's the way they make the wine. And two thirds of the growers don't use oak, it wasn't traditional, and if they do use oak, it's old oak, none of this new oak, until (Robert) Kacher got there. 

J.C.: Oh yes, oh, God, yes! My wife is a total fan, and I am too. Although when Red (Berenson, Red Wing great, and current University of Michigan hockey coach), was with Montreal, then New York and St. Louis, I followed him. I've known Red since I had him as a student, as a freshman. I was a big Michigan hockey fan, since '48. I knew a lot of the players, because my best friend in graduate school, from New York, was hunting for a place to live, and he got a room in the hockey house on Forest Street. Everybody there was a Michigan hockey player. So I would go over there, and I was a hockey fan and I would party with them. So I've been involved with Michigan hockey since almost '48. And then Red came, and I got to know him right away. And, I got to meet a lot of players when Red was with Detroit. He'd have parties, and I'd be invited, and they'd be there, so I met a lot of them. 

geo: Does Red enjoy wine?

J.C.: No, I take him wine and everything, but he's not really "into" wine. You know, most Canadians are into beer.

geo: You know that (Igor) Larionov is into wine?

J.C.: Yes I read that somewhere.

geo: And (Brendan) Shanahan, as well?

J.C.: No I didn't know that.

geo: From what I've heard, they're into the high-end Bordeaux.

J.C.: Well, maybe I should send Larionov a case of my Burgundies! (Laughter) 

geo: So, what's in the future for J et R?

J.C.: I'm 72 years old, and I've got to make sure the company continues, for my growers. There are a lot of bad importers around, not reliable, and if I can keep my growers with someone like Jim and Dan (Farley, J et R warehouse manager) and so on, who are honest, they know the growers and are going to treat them the way you should treat them, as opposed to some of these importers… I want to stay in it and turn this company over to Jim maintaining these relationships. I'm in it for the growers, essentially; I wasn't in it for the money.

Jim: When I sold my interest in the grocery business, I avidly sought a business to buy; I worked hard at it, but could never meet any criteria for return on investment.

J.C.: So now, he's thinking of buying J et R, and there's NO return on investment! (Laughter all around.)

Jim: As long as my wife isn't TOO critical of it, and I don't allocate some of my children's money to it… actually, my wife is very supportive of the idea. With lifestyle choices, there are trade-offs. One of the reasons that I've been slow to jump feet first into it is because I too know the relationship that J.C. has with the growers, and that becomes more critical than your return on investment, simply because of the friendships and the trust that you build, and being a classic mid-western boy, I'm not going to do something I don't say I'm going to do. So I've been reluctant to really go full force into it, because I know that I would be very much like J.C., where your decisions aren't based strictly on return on investment, they're based on the relationships and other pleasures that you get out of doing it. And I lived in France for several years, and I always love going back, so much so that I haven't gotten to Italy!

J.C.: Same here! (More laughter all around.)

Steve: You have to understand that the French concept of friendship is fundamentally different than we understand it here. You have a friend in France, it's understood that it's a lifetime commitment. They are NOT going to let you go, and you're not going to want them to let you go. It takes time to build it, but then it's cement. J.C. introduced me to his growers ten years ago, and I call them up and it's understood that I'm there for dinner, and they drop everything. There's none of this "I'm busy," or "I'll squeeze you in." They're totally focused on you as a person, and it's just a very sincere and honest commitment. 

J.C.: In business too, except at the big corporate level, friendship is very important in business. I don't have a contract with anyone; a written contract is not necessary. It's probably unusual in France, the French are very private people in many ways, but at Pegau, with the Ferauds, and with Bernard and Marie France (Latour, of l'Espigouette), I can just walk in the house. I'm just part of the family, in a sense, with those two families. Close friends are that way. 


At that point, J.C. announced that he had some matters to attend to, so we wrapped things up by taking advantage a few photo-ops. It was great fun speaking and enjoying wine with these friendly, cordial gentlemen. It's also a hoot watching them going off into a five-minute tangent of conversation regarding only - they - know - what, before returning to topic with next question grins. 

J.C. Mathes is a fascinating man. It's so refreshing to find a businessman in today's cutthroat commercial world that values trust and friendship over the almighty dollar, especially when the products that he markets are so exceptionally distinctive. There's something to say about a man whose motto is, "We only do business with people we like." 

I can get behind that.


Many thanks to Mark Smith and Steve Rosoff for making the interview happen, and to J.C., Jim and Steve for taking the time to sit around and chat about what is undoubtedly a favorite subject of us all.

Reporting from Day-twah,

geo t.

Copyright © 2003 George Heritier